Copywriting: interview with Nina Ramen

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With over 100,000 subscribers and a book published in June, Nina Ramen is one of the most followed copywriters on LinkedIn. For her, writing is an art, and she runs her own small business. She passes on her expertise to women entrepreneurs, through a bootcamp and two online training courses (copywriting and GPT chat for entrepreneurs).

Afffect caught up with Nina Ramen, nicknamed the Queen of Copywriting. The art of selling with words, personal branding, content creators, but also feminist convictions... Interview with Nina Ramen.

You're a copywriter, what does that mean?

My job is to teach copywriting with a W. It's theart of selling with words in the sense of convincing. It can be for a publication (getting a like, a comment), a sales or prospecting email, a newsletter or simply for a CTA. It's a very old marketing discipline - as evidenced by the characters in the Mad Men series - and one that can be practiced without any tools.

How did you get into copywriting?

My background is in chemical engineering, so it's nothing like that, and I never imagined I'd be in that line of work. At one time, I was a saleswoman, sending out prospecting messages. I realized that some messages worked better than others. As I dug deeper into the subject, I discovered that there was a discipline for getting people to respond, subscribe or simply want to buy.

Dyslexic, chemical engineer, copywriter - is there a common thread?

I mainly worked for two companies. Both had founders who were very active on LinkedIn. I was in sales and closed deals. I wondered if there was a link between their presence on LinkedIn and the leads we were receiving in the sales department. So I gradually worked my way back up. That's how I got interested in copywriting, then in creating content and now in teaching women to use it for a cause that's close to my heart.

When I started speaking out, I realized I was one of the only women doing so. I wanted to change that. Then I created a media and a product (bootcamp) to help women speak out on LinkedIn , because I think this platform is very representative of professional spaces. It's always the same people who speak up. As soon as you think of an expert, you imagine a man, rather white, rather with gray hair and a suit. I wanted to bring diversity. I've developed this skill, which seemed interesting to me at the outset, and today I put it to good use.

But beyond that, it 's a skill that's used in every field I've worked in: marketing, sales, but also recruitment. When you approach candidates, you have to write ads and manage to differentiate yourself, because the war for talent exists. The ad you write is also copywriting. So I realized that in a company, it's a discipline that's present almost everywhere.

What are the most common obstacles you encounter that prevent women from getting started on LinkedIn?

Perhaps the most common is the blank page syndrome. They wonder what interesting things they could say. But there's also impostor syndrome. Often, they devalue themselves and think they have nothing to say that hasn't been said before, for the better. They're also afraid of how others will look at them, afraid of being judged and of attracting haters. Women transpose to social networks what they experience in real life, namely daily aggression. They tell themselves that the more they expose themselves on social networks, the more likely they are to be attacked. To these three major obstacles, we can add the lack of time due to the mental burden.

How do you help them overcome these obstacles?

In several ways. As far as blank-page syndrome is concerned, I recommend having an idea box. It's an inspiration box that allows you, on D-day (when you have time and the desire to write), to pick up ideas. There's no such thing as divine inspiration, so I recommend jotting down ideas as they come to mind. To combat impostor syndrome, I recommendlooking at what other content creators have posted in their early days. It puts things into perspective and makes you realize that good writing comes from practice and training. I also advise them to address "their past selves". Imagine talking to someone who's where they were 2 years ago and wondering what advice they'd give them, what advice they'd wish they'd had back then. You also have to learn to overcome the expert syndrome, which consists in always overestimating the level of your audience. We tend to think that we're not going to teach people anything, even though they often know less than we do about the subject. In my case, I assume that everyone knows what copywriting means, but in reality, most people don't know what it is.

What role does personal branding play in writing and copywriting?

Personal branding refers to the personal brand. It's about becoming media as a person. It's really interesting because it allows you to capture attention more quickly. A brand is more impersonal and takes longer to establish in terms of values. Secondly, it makes people want to work with you. It generates leads, marketing, attention and, more broadly, develops your personal brand. And finally, it's about networking. Being identified on social networks makes it easier to be contacted. Copywriting is just one way of practicing personal branding. If you master the art of writing, you'll find it easier to tell your story. By the way, I also use copywriting in video scripts, so it's not just about writing. From the moment you tell a story, you have to ask yourself several questions: how am I going to get people on board, what words am I going to use, what obstacles am I going to have to overcome... So copywriting is a tool at the service of personal branding.

What advice would you give to someone starting out in copywriting who wants to use personal branding to promote their business?

I'd start by advising him toidentify the platform he prefers. And just because he's a copywriter doesn't necessarily mean it'll be LinkedIn (it could also be videos, for example). The question to ask is which channel he'll be able to sustain over time. The challenge in content creation, as in personal branding, is to last over time. Over time, you can analyze what works (and what doesn't), so you can improve and become better. The second piece of advice might be to find a team. That's what I do in my company. The women who join my company become part of a group that supports them. It's like going to the gym. Some days, you're less motivated, but you go because your friends are there. And finally, the most technical part: working on your messages and your target.

But the most important thing, in my opinion, is to stick with it over time. I've been publishing every week for six years now. It gives me a certain legitimacy in my field, because the number of people who can do it is very small. The challenge isn't to do something great right away, but to accept that something sucks and move forward.

Is there a specific rhythm to following in order to make a name for yourself on LinkedIn?

The rhythm is the one you can keep up. It's better to post two or three times a week every week than every day for two weeks. I recommend posting between 2 and 3 times a week, which is a good rhythm. The more people see and read you, the more they like you. That's the simple exposure bias. More is better.

You have over 100,000 followers. How did you build up your audience?

In the beginning, I posted every day, so it was a gradual process. There are people who know me from my recruitment days. People have followed my adventures, they know my life. Signing up for the long term allows you to create a long-term relationship with your audience. That's what interests me. The aim is to continue to offer women who discover me today content that will still interest them a year from now.

When you post very often and very regularly, you can't escape the 80/20 rule. In other words, 20% of your posts will bring you 80% of your growth. But you can't know in advance which ones will have the greatest impact. It's a bit like "machine-gunning", you have to admit and accept that. Recently, I made a 1 million post that brought me a growth spike. But the probability of my doing it again is unknown. It's hard to know all the factors that will make a post a success.

What's your average number of views per post?

I'm between 500 and 1 million a month.

All these tips are detailed in a book to be published in June 2023. Is this a project you've been working on for a long time?

I've always taught, I've always passed on what I've learned, what worked and what didn't, so you could say that this has always been my project. This book is a project that I gave birth to, that came to fruition after a year, but in the end, it's been several years in the making.

Right at the start of the book, you explain that you wanted it to be as inclusive as possible. Why was this so important to you?

I'm very committed, thank you for pointing that out. I put my expertise at the service of women because I want to. We tried to use as many impersonal, non-gendered formulas as possible. I would have liked to write it in inclusive script, but it was complicated. So we tried to use universal formulas that would speak to everyone. For us, that's already inclusivity. Studies have shown that when you're included, when you speak to everyone, the brain is more inclined to identify, to want to participate, to be carried away... We also used almost exclusively female examples. We felt it was important. It allows us to play the role model. In reality, when we only quote experts (rather white men, grey hair in ties...), our brain can't identify with them.

Will there be a volume 2?

Maybe, but if there is one, it won't be my technical expertise at all. As I said, copywriting is a tool to help women, but my "mission" is to stop living in a world dominated by patriarchy. And so, if I do a 2nd book, it will be about women, for women.

What distinctions do you make between content creators and influencers?

The barrier is a little blurred. Influencers use content creation. In the end, there's no difference. But influencers have a very specific business model. They sell advertising to their audience by sponsoring their posts, their newsletters, their videos... That's not my business model.

Some people call me an influencer because I have 100,000 subscribers, but that's mainly because we don't have a term to describe people who use content creation and influence to sell their products, not advertising. As for me, I'm an entrepreneur who uses social networks (LinkedIn) and copywriting as a lever for growth. The major difference, in my opinion, lies in what is sold: advertising or product.

After that, the term was much devalued. Not in B2B circles, but in B2C (influvoleurs, Booba, Magali Berdah...). There's a bit of a fear of being assigned this negative image. But in reality, everyone is an influencer and we all create content.

Content creators are exploding on social networks. Do you think they'll "replace" the media?

The main problem with traditional media is that they are not neutral. We saw this recently with CNews, which went completely off the rails by calling abortion murder. So people are turning more to media that are like them and that they can choose from. YouTube is already competing with TV. I think that as content creators, we have a role to play. I don't feel represented by what's said on TV. My challenge is to create a different voice. I'm also thinking of podcasts that are very committed. I don't think traditional media is going to disappear. Not today, anyway. But I do think we're creating alternative media. Squeezie's documentary shows this very well. In the beginning, he was taken for a clown on TV shows, but he gets more viewers than all the channels put together. Today, there's still resistance in the traditional media, but it's going to happen, because there's an audience.